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Israelis found in city of Hit by Iranian-Shi'ite on 26.06.2005 [05:59 ]

"Mafkarat al-Islam reported that Iraqi puppet forces discovered three beheaded bodies of foreigners carrying “Israeli” passports." Earth calling Sistani, you traitor, coward, fool. I wish I could say that to your face. The invaders are bringing in Zionists, torturing and raping Muslims, urinating on Qurans, damaging Mosques including the one in Najaf; and where are you? What are you doing? I wish my words could reach his dog ears. I want him to know that he is the type of munafiq that has eroded our freedom for centuries to oppressors.

Understanding our by verve on 26.06.2005 [14:20 ]

past history does not affect our future (it only provides insight)., Grave robbers are grave robber no matter how one describes them. And three less Israeli grave robbers ought to give the Yank tax payer some relief. Wonder who picks up the tab for the wake?

verve/ALERT! by Hindu-sister-of-Iraqis on 26.06.2005 [15:30 ]

LOL! .................................................................................................. MORE IMPORTANT: There is a lot of air activity! The US is sending a lot of troops somewhere........a lot of bloodshed of INNOCENTS. BEWARE! ALERT! MORE KILLERS ARE ON THEIR WAY!

Rumsfeld ambitious about divide and rule... by Hindu-sister-of-Iraqis on 26.06.2005 [18:24 ]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050626/ap_on_re_mi_ea/us_iraq Rumsfeld: Iraqis Must Defeat Insurgency Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Sunday it may take as long as 12 years to defeat Iraqi insurgents and that Iraqi security forces, not U.S. and foreign troops, will finish the job.

A caring USAn speaks/writes... by Hindu-sister-of-Iraqis on 26.06.2005 [18:29 ]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/sheehan4.html Dear George and Dick We know the intelligence leading to the war was "dead" wrong and gleaned from a known liar (your administration likes liars...familiarity, and all), so I have a question for you... Why are Americans and Iraqis still dying every day?

LOL! by Hindu-sister-of-Iraqis on 26.06.2005 [18:35 ]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/25/AR2005062500821_2.html The good news for President Bush: A poll last week found massive enthusiasm for him and his policies. The bad news: The poll was of Israelis.

Bush getting nervous??;)) by Hindu-sister-of-Iraqis on 26.06.2005 [18:42 ]

http://news.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=704102005 Bush warns Blair he must boost UK forces

Bravo IR!! by Hindu-sister-of-Iraqis on 26.06.2005 [18:47 ]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1514954,00.html Battered Bush watches as support ebbs away With memories of his poll victory still fresh, the President already seems a lame duck. Backing for the Iraq war has collapsed and his domestic agenda is in disarray. Even his party is rebelling. .................. I must say this gives me some satisfaction...Hopefully the USAns are waking up to the truth about Iraq and the ILLEGAL, IMORAL, BRUTAL INVASION!

The trust problem by jamidwyer on 26.06.2005 [19:00 ]

Sirs and Madams; I'm an American and this is my first time on your site. I'm very concerned about the violence in Iraq. Americans and Iraqis all want the same thing — a peaceful Iraq and U.S. troops out! Over here, we think that will happen when the resistance attacks stop. Over there, it seems like you think you'll scare us away. That's not true. After the U.S. left Iraq in 1991, we were horrified to see mass slaughter of people suspected of helping us. Even the pacifists among us in the United States don't want that to happen again. It seems like there's a problem of trust. We don't trust the resistance not to kill everyone they can when we leave, and you don't trust us to leave if you stop fighting. (I can understand that — I don't trust George Bush either!) I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on how to overcome this problem of trust and stop the terrible violence. Jami Dwyer Los Angeles, California, United States

Fallujah getting it again... by stopwar on 26.06.2005 [19:10 ]

Surely must be a war crime to persecute a whole people because four soldiers have been taken prisoner. C'mon UN. C'mon Kofi!! Enough war crimes have already been commited in that area.

Hi Jami by stopwar on 26.06.2005 [19:16 ]

Your arguments would sound reasonable if the Iraqi people had been "rescued" by the US army - the way the Rwandans could have been rescued (with hindsight, of course!) by UN forces. But the truth of the matter was that Iraq was a stable country. The only problem for most of the Iraqi people was US-enforced UK sanctions. And then... and then... the US invaded Iraq, bombing major cities, causing major destruction, and killing MANY innocent people. Instantly, the Iraqi people hated them. Just as you would hate the aggressor if your country was ever invaded. As a result of that invasion, the Iraqi people have EVERY reason not to trust the US military.

jamidwyer by Iranian-Shi'ite on 26.06.2005 [21:29 ]

I would tell you things similar to what Stopwar has said to you. However, it is better that you hear it from her since she is British and, as an USan, you are more likely to accept the words of a UKan than an Iranian like myself.

Americans and Semantics by Iranian-Shi'ite on 26.06.2005 [21:34 ]

While it is true that people of the U.S. are Americans, they are not the only Americans. All of the people of the North American and South American continents are also American. Canadians are American; Mexicans are American, Brazillians are Americans. Therefore, to distinguish Americans of the U.S. from Americans of, say, Argentina, we refer to the U.S. Americans as Usans. Amerigo Vespucci has his name on both the continents, as I understand it.

Another message to Sistani by Iranian-Shi'ite on 26.06.2005 [21:36 ]

I would beg you to convert to another religion, except that I would feel sorry for that religion. I would even feel pity for the athiests if you joined them. You are horrible and disgusting to the extreme. You make me depressed.

Iranian-Shi'ite by alsiddiq on 26.06.2005 [22:59 ]

no offense in anyway but, isn't it true that Shiites believe that their head Imams are infallible? Doesn't Sistani fall in that category for Shiites?

Hey, Iranian-Shi'ite... by stopwar on 26.06.2005 [23:01 ]

I am British, but you got the other bit wrong! Wouldn't want new posters getting the wrong impression.

To jamidwyer by Hindu-sister-of-Iraqis on 26.06.2005 [23:12 ]

I am neither Muslim nor Iraqi. Therefore I wouldlike to think that my stance/analysis is relatively objective. In your post you state: "Over here, we think that will happen when the resistance attacks stop. Over there, it seems like you think you'll scare us away. That's not true. After the U.S. left Iraq in 1991, we were horrified to see mass slaughter of people suspected of helping us. Even the pacifists among us in the United States don't want that to happen again. It seems like there's a problem of trust. We don't trust the resistance not to kill everyone they can when we leave, and you don't trust us to leave if you stop fighting. (I can understand that — I don't trust George Bush either!)" I find this very amusing and rather characteristic of 'The White Man's Burden' attitude! WHY is it any business of the US to poke its nose. Are you trying to state that the US is in Iraq for the well being of the Iraqis?! If you are then you are either naive or ill informed. IF the US is so kind hearted why did not rescue the Tibetans from China or even the Chinese from China. Perhaps you are unaware of the Nixon regimes complicity in the massacre of Bangladeshis while they were East Pakistan. THE US is ruthlessly selfish and brutal any charade of CONCERN is hogwash for the brainwashing of the very willing 'sheeple'. Conclusion: The US needs to get the hell out of IRAQ, 'yesterday'. Compensate and apologize for its bestalities OR SURRENDER to the IR! I would love to see bush and his gang of ruthless avaricious plutocrats in prison getting the same treatment they have subjected the Iraqis to!!

responses by Iranian-Shi'ite on 27.06.2005 [01:23 ]

stopwar: huh? alsidiq: In my understanding of the doctrine, we Shia believe in major prophets, minor prophets, divinely appointed imams, and human appointed imams. Each has a different standard to fullfill in order to reach the perfection for that type. For example, a perfect score on a math test for a child means something different than a perfect score on a math test for a college student. For example, by normal human standards, Jesus and Muhammad (peace upon them) were perfect; but by standards of major prophets, they sometimes erred and had to ask for forgiveness. Ayatollahs are supposed to be of excellent character, but they're not divine. I've never heard that they are infallible from any Shi'ite source. Besides, Iblis had reached standards of angellic perfection, but he fell, and he fell hard. I can't judge Sistani in the sense that I can say that I am absolutely certain that he is astray. It is only God's job to judge completely. For me to do so would be assuming His position which would be blasphamey. However, from everything that my heart and mind show me, Sistani is in severe error. I am passing that off as my perception, not as how God will certainly judge him because God does NOT talk to me, repeat, does NOT. However, the little green Martians do talk to me. ;-)

alsidiq: by Iranian-Shi'ite on 27.06.2005 [01:26 ]

I've been trying hard to get Shia and Sunnis to respect each other's ideas. I've been trying to get them to see themselves as peering into two different facets of the same diamond. But, I've had little success. Do you have any ideas?

@Iranian Shi'ite by stopwar on 27.06.2005 [01:38 ]

whatever made you think I was not a British male... was wrong. But as you also know I am Buddhist so perhaps not a typical Brit.

apologies sir by Iranian-Shi'ite on 27.06.2005 [02:07 ]

sorry about that. I guess Hinduism is more popular in England because of the Beatles going to India. That and Rudyard Kipling writing about India. Also, India being a colony and Forester's "Passage to India." Which reminds me, I'm watching a movie based on Forester's "Horatio Hornblower." Have you ever seen that? I'm watching the one directed by Andrew Grieves. I'm also about to start reading Kipling's "Captain's Courageous." Are you into Kipling?

No problem by stopwar on 27.06.2005 [02:31 ]

You are right about The Beatles - especially George Harrison, who donated a very large country mansion to the Hare Krishna group. Ravi Shankar was also a big influence musically. Kipling's "The Jungle Book" is much loved in the UK, and the Disney version must have captivated two generations by now. I don't read much "classics" nowadays - and don't do half enough meditation. The Hindu influence in the UK has also arisen from the many Indian settlers. Eating habits have also changed - now more Indian restaurants than probably any other nationality, and a "Curry" (not necessarily hot!) is becoming one of the most popular dishes - even some otherwise traditional English pubs!

UK - Hindus etc by Hindu-sister-of-Iraqis on 27.06.2005 [03:09 ]

Yup many many Indians in UK. Many many Pakistanis too.... Please note that the 'Hare Krishnas' are not main stream Hindus. They are really, well many of them, ex-hippies etc. The 'Hare Krishnas' are a cult of sorts...

Reply to stopwar, Iranian, Hindu by jamidwyer on 27.06.2005 [05:39 ]

Thank you, everyone, for your considered responses. Stopwar and Iranian, I have thought about how we'd feel if France or the UN marched into our country to "liberate" us from George Bush. Invading a stable country that was no threat was wrong. I protested the war in Iraq. And they made a real mess of things by not having any sort of good plan when they arrived, by securing the oil and not the people. But we need to leave Iraq in the best condition we can. I don't think just withdrawing troops when there's so much violence is a good idea. I know the violence is theoretically because we are there, but really much of it is targeted at the new, democratically-elected government. We can't leave a fledgling government to be slaughtered by what's left of Saddam's military. Hindu, the goal of the resistance as I understand it is to make U.S. troops leave. We want that, too. But as long as the resistance keeps killing people, we worry that there will be massive war if we leave the new government without any defenses. It's not about race. If it were France, I'd feel the same. We can't leave a country in such a dangerous position. What do you think would happen if all our troops left tomorrow? Do you think the violence would stop? I don't. As for the "American" thing, I was very confused when I was in Mexico last month and there was a soccer team called "America," so not only the U.S. is guilty of claiming to be "American." We have the weird problem, though, of having no word like Unitedstatesan that's specific to our country.

@Jami by stopwar on 27.06.2005 [09:08 ]

Thanks for your considered reply. It is a pity USAns were not allowed to consider what occupation must be like - presumably because of a bombardment of propaganda to baffle, and confuse - what George Galloway called "the mother of smokescreens". I don't think it could be any worse if the US (and UK!) pulled out of Iraq. If it is done in a coordinated manner, according to the wishes of the Iraqi people (NOT THE PUPPET GOVT, who are clearly not trusted) then Iraq would sort itself out. After all, it has been "civilised" for 6000 years. Also, didn't they say the same about Vietnam - that there would be civil war? As far as I remember, there was great joy and celebration after US troops finally departed in 1975, and this was sooo embarrassing for US imperialism that it kept the US military out of conflict for the next 16 year. Even Reagan knew that USAns wouldn't buy it. Of course I could be wrong about that last paragraph - in the 1980s there was no opportunity to converse directly with USAns via the Internet. The only sources were indirect - mainly TV and radio.

Do you think the violence would stop? Eventually, yes! by Iranian-Shi'ite on 27.06.2005 [10:21 ]

I do think the violence would stop. I also think that believing that Iraqis can not solve their own problems is infuriatingly insulting! I feel offended and enraged for them from that question. To believe that the Iraqis can't stop the violence when in fact the U.S. presence is the main cause of the violence makes it even worse. I'm sorry, but I find such comments justifying U.S. presence in Iraq to be so arrogant and condescending that I consider them to be provocations towards more fighting. If the U.S. left tomorrow, the traitors like the Badr Brigade and PM Jafaari would be destroyed, then the Iraqis could establish a real legitimate government, and not some Rand corporation sham. "I know the violence is theoretically because we are there, but really much of it is targeted at the new, democratically-elected government." I'm nauseated to hear that puppet government spawned amidst an illigitimate election theatrical to be referred to as "democratically-elected." That's worse then calling Nazi-occupied France's government "democratically-elected." The U.S. needs to get out NOW. The longer the U.S. stays in Iraq, the worse things can get. The only good point about the U.S. staying in Iraq is that it will increase the punishment on the USA. No nation in history has inflicted as much pain and suffering on the world as the U.S. has inflicted. Hopefully, this war will drain the U.S. economy the way that the Afghan war drained the USSR economy. Let the USA grieve the deaths of its marauder oil-pirates. From poisoning Iraq and Kosovo with depleted uranium, to baby killing sanctions that murdered over a million Iraqi children, to usurping democracies all over the world, to massacaring Vietnamese villages, to nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and so on and etc, every bit of pain that the U.S. has suffered in Iraq is only a fraction of the bitter pain that the U.S. deserves to taste.

USA and its economic hitmen by Iranian-Shi'ite on 27.06.2005 [10:23 ]

The U.S. brags about its charity. In fact, the USA's charity is a fraction of what it steals from the world. A significant portion of the of starvation and disease in the world is from U.S. theft. see Perkin's "Confessions of an Economic Hitman."

Term for Americans from the USA by Xuma100 on 27.06.2005 [10:24 ]

>>Therefore, to distinguish Americans of the U.S. from Americans of, say, Argentina, we refer to the U.S. Americans as Usans. USans is fine, but USers is also a patronimic. USers also reflects better the true nature of a people that waste 50% of the world's resources while only representing 5% of the world's population. Let's call them what they are: USers

Hindu Sister by Iranian-Shi'ite on 27.06.2005 [10:30 ]

Hello Hindu Sister, it's nice to meet you. Poor George didn't know that the Hare Krishna's were comedy Hindus. At the time he thought he was supporting main stream Hinduism. Do you read the Gita? The Vedas? great stuff. God bless Gandhi and Henry David Thoreau (Gandhi read Thoreau, who read the Gita, interesting)

USers by Iranian-Shi'ite on 27.06.2005 [10:32 ]

"USers,"good one Xuma! I wish Don Gaucho was here to see that. That's really good.

"Comedy Hindus" by stopwar on 27.06.2005 [10:39 ]

That's an interesting way to put it. But they were out on the streets of the UK giving away books like The Bhavad Gita, and a lot of 70s people would have been influenced by them. At that stage I was totally atheist, and talk of e.g. "the great whole" could easily be taken two ways - especially to those with progesterone levels rising! "Mainstream" hindus wouldn't have reached the pop generation - but the Hare Krishnas certainly did. Nothing wrong with comedy...

Ok, nothing wrong with comedy by Iranian-Shi'ite on 27.06.2005 [11:25 ]

true, very true. nothing wrong with comedy indeed.

@Jamid by Seele on 27.06.2005 [22:11 ]

I feel deeply sorry for you, for with your statement you proved that finally you did not understand anything ! How can you think that a Iraqi Goverment which was covered and installed under the brutal US occupation could be "democratical-elected" in any way ? I hope god will burn to death all this collaborating scum together with its US torture-masters in hell painfully. I don t even feel a breeze of mercy for these honourless bastards and their US fellow assholes. I pray every day that god may send all thinkable forms of pain to every ignominous single nerve of their fucking bodies, punishing them for what they did and continue to commit on the honourable Iraqi people every day !

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